Go Back   Sudan.Net Discussion Board - SDB - منتدى سودان.نت > General Discussion Board > General Discussion - المنتدى العام

    

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 25-Apr-16, 06:56   #1
Carl
Moderator
 
Carl's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Cali
Posts: 6,670
Default Why the Arabic world turned away from science?

Contemporary Islam is not known for its engagement in the modern scientific project. But it is heir to a legendary “Golden Age” of Arabic science frequently invoked by commentators hoping to make Muslims and Westerners more respectful and understanding of each other. President Obama, for instance, in his June 4, 2009 speech in Cairo, praised Muslims for their historical scientific and intellectual contributions to civilization:


It was Islam that carried the light of learning through so many centuries, paving the way for Europe’s Renaissance and Enlightenment. It was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra; our magnetic compass and tools of navigation; our mastery of pens and printing; our understanding of how disease spreads and how it can be healed.

Such tributes to the Arab world’s era of scientific achievement are generally made in service of a broader political point, as they usually precede discussion of the region’s contemporary problems. They serve as an implicit exhortation: the great age of Arab science demonstrates that there is no categorical or congenital barrier to tolerance, cosmopolitanism, and advancement in the Islamic Middle East.

Today, however, the spirit of science in the Muslim world is as dry as the desert. Pakistani physicist Pervez Amirali Hoodbhoy laid out the grim statistics in a 2007 Physics Today article: Muslim countries have nine scientists, engineers, and technicians per thousand people, compared with a world average of forty-one. In these nations, there are approximately 1,800 universities, but only 312 of those universities have scholars who have published journal articles. Of the fifty most-published of these universities, twenty-six are in Turkey, nine are in Iran, three each are in Malaysia and Egypt, Pakistan has two, and Uganda, the U.A.E., Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Kuwait, Jordan, and Azerbaijan each have one.

There are roughly 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, but only two scientists from Muslim countries have won Nobel Prizes in science (one for physics in 1979, the other for chemistry in 1999). Forty-six Muslim countries combined contribute just 1 percent of the world’s scientific literature; Spain and India each contribute more of the world’s scientific literature than those countries taken together. In fact, although Spain is hardly an intellectual superpower, it translates more books in a single year than the entire Arab world has in the past thousand years. “Though there are talented scientists of Muslim origin working productively in the West,” Nobel laureate physicist Steven Weinberg has observed, “for forty years I have not seen a single paper by a physicist or astronomer working in a Muslim country that was worth reading.”



Source here
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Carl is offline               Reply With Quote               
Sponsored Links
Old 25-Apr-16, 07:33   #2
cool sara
Crown Member
 
cool sara's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 13,127
Default





common sense would answer because they are lazy brains, but an expert dreamer would say because they were played right to be stopped and chased out of the global development equation

..
وشكرا لي لأني ارد على اسألتك
وعفوا لي ايضا
قووقل ترانسليت


__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
تاجُ السلطانِ الغاشمِ تفاحهْ ..تتأرجح أعلى سارية ِ ..الساحهْ
تاجُ الصوفى ..يُضىْ ..على سِجادة ..قَشْ
صدقنى يا ياقوت ..العرشْ
cool sara is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 25-Apr-16, 07:40   #3
aal
Golden Member
 

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Stamford Bridge
Posts: 9,600
Send a message via MSN to aal
Default

They don't need science, everything they need to know is mentioned in the Quran! Everything that has ever been discovered was also mentioned in the Quran, Future inventions are there too, we just too lazy to read them
__________________
You Are What You Think You Are
aal is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 26-Apr-16, 17:55   #4
swa-swa
Golden Member
 
swa-swa's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 9,459
Default

Unfortunately no intelligent leaders except for few examples(Look below).


Mahathir Mohamad former Malaysian Leader



_________________________________________________
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan current Turkish president
__________________
We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth.Noble Quran-Surat Fussilat [verse 53]

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
swa-swa is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 26-Apr-16, 18:57   #5
Sultan
Crown Member
 
Sultan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sudan
Posts: 27,111
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl View Post
Contemporary Islam is not known for its engagement in the modern scientific project. But it is heir to a legendary “Golden Age” of Arabic science frequently invoked by commentators hoping to make Muslims and Westerners more respectful and understanding of each other. President Obama, for instance, in his June 4, 2009 speech in Cairo, praised Muslims for their historical scientific and intellectual contributions to civilization:


It was Islam that carried the light of learning through so many centuries, paving the way for Europe’s Renaissance and Enlightenment. It was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra; our magnetic compass and tools of navigation; our mastery of pens and printing; our understanding of how disease spreads and how it can be healed.

Such tributes to the Arab world’s era of scientific achievement are generally made in service of a broader political point, as they usually precede discussion of the region’s contemporary problems. They serve as an implicit exhortation: the great age of Arab science demonstrates that there is no categorical or congenital barrier to tolerance, cosmopolitanism, and advancement in the Islamic Middle East.

Today, however, the spirit of science in the Muslim world is as dry as the desert. Pakistani physicist Pervez Amirali Hoodbhoy laid out the grim statistics in a 2007 Physics Today article: Muslim countries have nine scientists, engineers, and technicians per thousand people, compared with a world average of forty-one. In these nations, there are approximately 1,800 universities, but only 312 of those universities have scholars who have published journal articles. Of the fifty most-published of these universities, twenty-six are in Turkey, nine are in Iran, three each are in Malaysia and Egypt, Pakistan has two, and Uganda, the U.A.E., Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Kuwait, Jordan, and Azerbaijan each have one.

There are roughly 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, but only two scientists from Muslim countries have won Nobel Prizes in science (one for physics in 1979, the other for chemistry in 1999). Forty-six Muslim countries combined contribute just 1 percent of the world’s scientific literature; Spain and India each contribute more of the world’s scientific literature than those countries taken together. In fact, although Spain is hardly an intellectual superpower, it translates more books in a single year than the entire Arab world has in the past thousand years. “Though there are talented scientists of Muslim origin working productively in the West,” Nobel laureate physicist Steven Weinberg has observed, “for forty years I have not seen a single paper by a physicist or astronomer working in a Muslim country that was worth reading.”



Source here
There seems to be a lot of confusing language in the article that conflates Arabs with Moslems.

The short answer is a millennia-long period of colonialism has distorted the natural rate of development. The only thing that was not turned on its head was the ceremonial aspects of culture.

Indigenous people throughout the world are having a difficult time catching up with the 21-century because they lack the institutional capacity to do so Arabs and Moslems are no exception.

Even the early work of many, who were mostly moslems rather than Arab, bumped up against the religious and government institutions of the day much like many of what had transpired, at a latter date, in the West and led to secularization and the industrial age ...etc!

Why the Arab world/moslem world turned away from free inquiryis more accurate and less utilitarian (self-serving for the author)!

Ps: Appreciate any elaboration on the technical difficulties of the forum and changes to the ignore system!
__________________

حرية سلام وعدالة.. الثورة خيار الشعب

ديمقراطية راسخة ..تنمية مستدامة ..وطن واحد ..سلم وطيد
Sudan for all the Sudanese ..السودان لكل السودانيين
Sultan is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 26-Apr-16, 23:01   #6
Karkar
Banned
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 49N/122W
Posts: 5,831
Send a message via AIM to Karkar Send a message via MSN to Karkar Send a message via Yahoo to Karkar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aal View Post
They don't need science, everything they need to know is mentioned in the Quran! Everything that has ever been discovered was also mentioned in the Quran, Future inventions are there too, we just too lazy to read them
There you go! You got your answer ya carl.
Karkar is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 26-Apr-16, 23:16   #7
Karkar
Banned
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 49N/122W
Posts: 5,831
Send a message via AIM to Karkar Send a message via MSN to Karkar Send a message via Yahoo to Karkar
Default

Carl, I think you're giving too much credits to the Arabs. The leading Islamic scholars and scientists of the Islamic Renaissance in the early days weren't Arabs per say. They were Persians, Afghanis, Turkish, Kurdish and far east Indians. Not Arabs, The orangutans of Arabian peninsula were still riding on camel backs and eating grasshoppers, and burying their baby girls alive. They were nothing more than savage barbarians as they're today. They lack creative talents. They do have one useful trait though, and that's cunningness. No race on planet earth can match them in this talent, except, --------. Fill in the blanks.
Karkar is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 08-May-16, 09:26   #8
Carl
Moderator
 
Carl's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Cali
Posts: 6,670
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cool sara View Post

common sense would answer because they are lazy brains, but an expert dreamer would say because they were played right to be stopped and chased out of the global development equation
..
وشكرا لي لأني ارد على اسألتك
وعفوا لي ايضا
قووقل ترانسليت
hahaha interesting I disagree with lazy brains but maybe chased out of the equation!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Carl is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 08-May-16, 09:37   #9
Carl
Moderator
 
Carl's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Cali
Posts: 6,670
Default

This is so true Sultan, the effects of and the role of colonialism can not be ignored.

Re-tech difficulties- My apologies, haven't been around much as I am travelling at the moment.

Will check with Muaz re this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Carl is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 08-May-16, 13:22   #10
African Rebel
Banned
 

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,954
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karkar View Post
Carl, I think you're giving too much credits to the Arabs. The leading Islamic scholars and scientists of the Islamic Renaissance in the early days weren't Arabs per say. They were Persians, Afghanis, Turkish, Kurdish and far east Indians. Not Arabs, The orangutans of Arabian peninsula were still riding on camel backs and eating grasshoppers, and burying their baby girls alive. They were nothing more than savage barbarians as they're today. They lack creative talents. They do have one useful trait though, and that's cunningness. No race on planet earth can match them in this talent, except, --------. Fill in the blanks.
Kakar i don't think you giving arabs enough credit for their scientific achievement....I mean you gotta admit they are some of the most advanced suicide bomb builders in the world
African Rebel is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 08-May-16, 16:44   #11
ودالعفاض
Crown Member
 
ودالعفاض's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: الحصاية ـ العفاض
Posts: 12,161
Default

this question is very difficult and complicated to answer as many different factors play their role,, from the way of life to the political and social systems ,religious belief and their influence to the basic , high education and research ....
it is difficult to point out to one side or some of them and ignore the rest of the problems ,,,, the whole system needs a radical overhaul and a new approach to turn things upside down...
__________________
...(ام ابرموا امرا فانا مبرمون)
من كرمت عليه نفسه هانت عليه شهوته
ودالعفاض is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 08-May-16, 20:00   #12
khalid harry
Major Contributor
 
khalid harry's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 219
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by African Rebel View Post
Kakar i don't think you giving arabs enough credit for their scientific achievement....I mean you gotta admit they are some of the most advanced suicide bomb builders in the world

Best answer fella AR
__________________
"It is better to die standing than to live on your knees." - Che Guevara
khalid harry is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 08-May-16, 21:12   #13
Karkar
Banned
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 49N/122W
Posts: 5,831
Send a message via AIM to Karkar Send a message via MSN to Karkar Send a message via Yahoo to Karkar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by African Rebel View Post
Kakar i don't think you giving arabs enough credit for their scientific achievement....I mean you gotta admit they are some of the most advanced suicide bomb builders in the world

True that ! True to that! When it comes to boldness and having the guts to do something. They got the whole credit 💳 💳 💳 💳 💳 . Decisiveness! And cunningness, I have no choice but to give them 💳 💳 💳 💳 💳. Some time, you gotta act. You've to take action.
Karkar is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 09-May-16, 05:14   #14
MakilNeem
Crown Member
 
MakilNeem's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2003
Location: محل قبَّلْ لقيت الدنيا مخجوجة
Posts: 20,352
Default

Because they DO NOT read
!!!

First word revealed in the sacred Arabic Book reads: IQRAA (READ)!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MakilNeem is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 09-May-16, 23:35   #15
Eljalie
Major Contributor
 
Eljalie's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: United Kindom
Posts: 1,573
Send a message via Skype™ to Eljalie
Default

Hi Carl and everyone, this is a very interesting topic, thank you Carl for bringing it up, I will add to it very soon, but for now I can only agree with Sultan, he nailed it down and explained it as it is.
__________________
God Bless Khartoum, the land of heroes
Eljalie is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 11-May-16, 05:10   #16
African Rebel
Banned
 

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,954
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karkar View Post
True that ! True to that! When it comes to boldness and having the guts to do something. They got the whole credit 💳 💳 💳 💳 💳 . Decisiveness! And cunningness, I have no choice but to give them 💳 💳 💳 💳 💳. Some time, you gotta act. You've to take action.
yeah one of the things that makes air-rubs so dangerous is they are willing to die at a moments notice in the name Alladin Akbar and they are master con artist..

i'm mad these rug pilots have exported their terrorism in Africa and even got their Nigerian slaves(Boko Haram) using little African girls as suicide bombers
African Rebel is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 30-May-16, 15:54   #17
haegar
Golden Member
 
haegar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,605
Default

50% of Arab intellectual resources lie idle. I mean the female part of the population.
__________________
"I disagree with what you say but I will defend to death your right to say it"
(Voltaire)

To the NSA: don´t bother saving this message, it is innocuous.
haegar is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 30-May-16, 19:27   #18
Sultan
Crown Member
 
Sultan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sudan
Posts: 27,111
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by haegar View Post
50% of Arab intellectual resources lie idle. I mean the female part of the population.
Nonsense, net every thing repeated by western press is accurate. There is a great deal of variation when it comes to women in the workforce in Arab countries. Even in Saudi Arabia women work. The gender disparity does not explain the scientific malaise!
__________________

حرية سلام وعدالة.. الثورة خيار الشعب

ديمقراطية راسخة ..تنمية مستدامة ..وطن واحد ..سلم وطيد
Sudan for all the Sudanese ..السودان لكل السودانيين
Sultan is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 04-Jun-16, 18:57   #19
Karkar
Banned
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 49N/122W
Posts: 5,831
Send a message via AIM to Karkar Send a message via MSN to Karkar Send a message via Yahoo to Karkar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sultan View Post
Nonsense, net every thing repeated by western press is accurate. There is a great deal of variation when it comes to women in the workforce in Arab countries. Even in Saudi Arabia women work. The gender disparity does not explain the scientific malaise!
Ammu Sultan, you can ignore it all as you want but the truth is truth. The retardation, and degeneration of scientific and intellectual progress in the Arab world is due to the multifaceted problem ( dilemma) , or a compound problem. Have fun with a Rubik cube! Women oppression in the so called Arab World or Islamic world and many other backward thinking ideas or ideologies are the main contributors to this obliviousness. The scientific, intellectual and economic progress and social and political improvements, you name it, they all have been deliberately and decadently stagnated or retarded to a total degeneration. It's a pathetic hindrance to mankind upliftment and betterment. There is more to know in this world or on this planet than crying Allahu Akhbar and running around like wild monkeys. No offense intended, It's just plain truth, nothing but the truth.
Karkar is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 05-Jun-16, 05:00   #20
bitomdurman
Golden Member
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: sudan
Posts: 3,633
Send a message via ICQ to bitomdurman Send a message via AIM to bitomdurman Send a message via MSN to bitomdurman Send a message via Yahoo to bitomdurman
Default

I have a question too:
Why the african world turned away from the brain and from the knowledge?! they
Even have no written language!! Except one country!!!

bitomdurman is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 05-Jun-16, 19:08   #21
Sultan
Crown Member
 
Sultan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sudan
Posts: 27,111
Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karkar View Post
Ammu Sultan, you can ignore it all as you want but the truth is truth. The retardation, and degeneration of scientific and intellectual progress in the Arab world is due to the multifaceted problem ( dilemma) , or a compound problem. Have fun with a Rubik cube! Women oppression in the so called Arab World or Islamic world and many other backward thinking ideas or ideologies are the main contributors to this obliviousness. The scientific, intellectual and economic progress and social and political improvements, you name it, they all have been deliberately and decadently stagnated or retarded to a total degeneration. It's a pathetic hindrance to mankind upliftment and betterment. There is more to know in this world or on this planet than crying Allahu Akhbar and running around like wild monkeys. No offense intended, It's just plain truth, nothing but the truth.
Karkar

My statement is based on statistical facts not the whims of fools trying to feed a particular obtuse narrative.

Please refrain from soiling the “truth” as you and it are mortal enemies.

Beyond that the lot of women and gender equality (irrespective of geography, cultural values, ideologies, or material progress) from the Nuba Mountains, South Sudan, or any place else around the world is not a happy one .. their struggle is incomplete ya Comrade!

Ps: There are some things you just can’t solve with an AK-47 .. sorry!
__________________

حرية سلام وعدالة.. الثورة خيار الشعب

ديمقراطية راسخة ..تنمية مستدامة ..وطن واحد ..سلم وطيد
Sudan for all the Sudanese ..السودان لكل السودانيين
Sultan is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 05-Jun-16, 19:48   #22
Karkar
Banned
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 49N/122W
Posts: 5,831
Send a message via AIM to Karkar Send a message via MSN to Karkar Send a message via Yahoo to Karkar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitomdurman View Post
I have a question too:
Why the african world turned away from the brain and from the knowledge?! they
Even have no written language!! Except one country!!!

Ya salam, ya salam ! Salamtik ya Bitomdurman, long time no C! I got a bunch of questions too . For you, ya Bitomdurman! 😊😊. How are you? So , are you bit Omdurman forever? Don't you grow up? You know, when are you gonna grow up and become om-omdurman? Or just plain omdurman? Are you on a quest for the fountain ⛲ of youth? Or is it just a nostalgia of your prime life? You know, omour alzuhour , the spring of your then youthful life. Sorry, ya bittana, I have to inform you that there's no forever, There's only a cycle of things.

Okay, let's go back to our topic! , regarding your question about African backwardness, I knew it, I anticipated such question long before it came to your mind, my dear. Let me make a short cut here, and dump it on your kinds and well deservedly so. It's your fault! It's because of the evilness of your kinds who have no desire or ambition nor peace for a better , brighter future.

About lack of written African languages, you definitely don't know the history of Africa. Hmmmmm! I wonder why the Islamist fanatics and racist Arabists in Sudan are intentionally submerging or drowning the ancient Nubian archeological sites under artificial lakes by building unnecessary dams?
Karkar is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 05-Jun-16, 20:04   #23
Karkar
Banned
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 49N/122W
Posts: 5,831
Send a message via AIM to Karkar Send a message via MSN to Karkar Send a message via Yahoo to Karkar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sultan View Post
Karkar

My statement is based on statistical facts not the whims of fools trying to feed a particular obtuse narrative.

Please refrain from soiling the “truth” as you and it are mortal enemies.

Beyond that the lot of women and gender equality (irrespective of geography, cultural values, ideologies, or material progress) from the Nuba Mountains, South Sudan, or any place else around the world is not a happy one .. their struggle is incomplete ya Comrade!

Ps: There are some things you just can’t solve with an AK-47 .. sorry!
Yes! Yes! Yes! Ammu sultan, statistical facts! Yes! Statistics! Which can be forged, faked, manipulated, made up, falsify, and created out of thin air. You know that too ya Ammu. For the rest of your statement, it's just a blatant justification, and nothing more. I thought you portrait yourself as some sort of an intellectual? What's this runabout here?
Karkar is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 05-Jun-16, 20:26   #24
kandis
Major Contributor
 
kandis's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Germanien
Posts: 1,329
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitomdurman View Post
I have a question too:
Why the african world turned away from the brain and from the knowledge?! they
Even have no written language!! Except one country!!!


I love it when Bitumdurmann starts raising questions, specially when they are in English
Ok, so what´s the name of this exceptional country?

By the way the question raised concerning arabs and science suggests that ARABS - had a fable for science in ancient times. That ´s a myth.
Arabs never approached problems scientifically, there were some few famous scientists from Syria and Irak who had the opprtunity to read Indien, Greek and Persian literature but you can count them on two hands.
Science was de facto tabu in the Muslim communities even during the Ottoman Empire.
__________________


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Last edited by kandis; 05-Jun-16 at 20:35.
kandis is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 05-Jun-16, 23:22   #25
Sultan
Crown Member
 
Sultan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sudan
Posts: 27,111
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karkar View Post
Yes! Yes! Yes! Ammu sultan, statistical facts! Yes! Statistics! Which can be forged, faked, manipulated, made up, falsify, and created out of thin air. You know that too ya Ammu. For the rest of your statement, it's just a blatant justification, and nothing more. I thought you portrait yourself as some sort of an intellectual? What's this runabout here?
It is quite alright ya Karkar, I don't expect you to understand much of I say!
__________________

حرية سلام وعدالة.. الثورة خيار الشعب

ديمقراطية راسخة ..تنمية مستدامة ..وطن واحد ..سلم وطيد
Sudan for all the Sudanese ..السودان لكل السودانيين
Sultan is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 05-Jun-16, 23:25   #26
Sultan
Crown Member
 
Sultan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sudan
Posts: 27,111
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kandis View Post

I love it when Bitumdurmann starts raising questions, specially when they are in English
Ok, so what´s the name of this exceptional country?

By the way the question raised concerning arabs and science suggests that ARABS - had a fable for science in ancient times. That ´s a myth.
Arabs never approached problems scientifically, there were some few famous scientists from Syria and Irak who had the opprtunity to read Indien, Greek and Persian literature but you can count them on two hands.
Science was de facto tabu in the Muslim communities even during the Ottoman Empire.
Yes, ya Kandis anything you say about Arabs, Moslems, …, etc is a gospel of truth!
__________________

حرية سلام وعدالة.. الثورة خيار الشعب

ديمقراطية راسخة ..تنمية مستدامة ..وطن واحد ..سلم وطيد
Sudan for all the Sudanese ..السودان لكل السودانيين
Sultan is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 06-Jun-16, 06:49   #27
bitomdurman
Golden Member
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: sudan
Posts: 3,633
Send a message via ICQ to bitomdurman Send a message via AIM to bitomdurman Send a message via MSN to bitomdurman Send a message via Yahoo to bitomdurman
Default

I know that the white race were the pioneers of the most- if not
All the sciences, not the arabs and indeed not the africans and they
Are the leaders till now..i mean the white!
We talked about that in many last posts..
bitomdurman is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 06-Jun-16, 16:31   #28
Karkar
Banned
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 49N/122W
Posts: 5,831
Send a message via AIM to Karkar Send a message via MSN to Karkar Send a message via Yahoo to Karkar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitomdurman View Post
I know that the white race were the pioneers of the most- if not
All the sciences, not the arabs and indeed not the africans and they
Are the leaders till now..i mean the white!
We talked about that in many last posts..
There you go! This is the Arabists thinking or way of understanding the way of life on planet earth. Yes, in the fabricated history of mankind on earth, the whites are pioneers science and economic progress. Yes, the whites are on the top of the world and the rest of the lowly earth primates are at the bottom of the pyramid. Yes, it's true. And it's also true that God, oh, was it God or was it Allah who created Adam and eve? I think it was Allah, the moon God, who created Adam out of earthly clay and he blows into his nostrils and voila, he's alive! he's alive! he's alive ! And Adam's mate, eve was created out of his ribs. This is a true story. Yes, it's a true story. Wow, very interesting. Please do tell more of your story of how the whites were and are the pioneers of the scientific progress on planet earth. Please do tell it again, it is worth hearing it again and again.
Karkar is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 07-Jun-16, 02:23   #29
Scorpius
Golden Member
 
Scorpius's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitomdurman View Post
I know that the white race were the pioneers of the most- if not
All the sciences, not the arabs and indeed not the africans and they
Are the leaders till now..i mean the white!
We talked about that in many last posts..
Is ancient Egypt white? Is ancient Nubia white? How about the Mayans are they white? is ancient China and India white? All these civilizations by the way are the real "pioneers" and they invented things out of nothing and laid the groundwork for future generations to build on their knowledge. Even "whites" themselves would not claim this superiority over other races so I am not sure why you would make such an absurd claim
Scorpius is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 07-Jun-16, 15:59   #30
kandis
Major Contributor
 
kandis's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Germanien
Posts: 1,329
Thumbs up

Sultan is a need of some background knowledge regarding Persian and Byzantine times.






Introduced by Dr. N.S. Rajaram

Editor’s introduction

It is widely believed and taught, including in India, that there was a Golden Age of Islamic learning that made a major contribution to science and the arts. In India we are told that this ‘synthesis’ between Hindu and Muslim thought gave rise to a great ‘syncretic’ civilization that was suppressed and eventually destroyed by the British. However, this flies in the face of the fact that not a single name of a major scientist from the five-plus centuries of Islamic rule of India has come down to us. We have to go to pre-Islamic India to invoke names from the past— names like Aryabhata, Varahamihira and the like.

AlBeruni
Al Biruni, eyewitness to the destruction of Indian learning

It is a similar story when we look at universities or centers of learning. Pre-Islamic India was renowned for its universities: Takshashila, Vikramashila, Nalanda, Ujjain and other places attracted students and scholars alike from far and wide, much like the United States of today.

After the establishment of the Delhi Sultanate, not a single center of learning (other than Islamic seminaries) was established for over seven centuries. The first modern universities came to be established only during the British rule.

Also worth noting is the fact that the so-called ‘synthesis’ of learning took place before Islamic invasions engulfed both India and Persia in a Dark Age. The Sassanid emperor Kosrau I deserves much of the credit for work that is wrongly credited to Islamic rulers and scholars.

Khosrau I (reigned 531–79) known as Anushirvan or ‘the immortal soul’ was a great patron of philosophy and knowledge. He gave refuge to scholars from the Eastern Roman Empire when the bigoted Christian Emperor Justinian closed down the neo-Platonist schools in Athens in 529 AD. Earlier, in 415 AD, Christian goons led by ‘Saint’ Cyril burnt down the great library in Alexandria and murdered the neo-Platonic scholar Hypatia who taught there, because another ‘saint’ Paul had decreed that women must keep their silence.

Khosrau was greatly interested in Indian philosophy, science, mathematics, and medicine. He sent multiple embassies and gifts to the Indian court and requested them to send back philosophers to teach in his court in return. Khosrau made many translations of texts from Greek, Sanskrit, and Syriac into Middle Persian. He was lauded as “Plato’s Philosopher King” by the Greek refugees that he allowed into his empire because of his great interest in Platonic philosophy.

A synthesis of Greek, Persian, Indian, and Armenian learning traditions took place within the Sassanian Empire. One outcome of this synthesis created what is known as bimari-stan (‘home for the ailing’), the first hospital that introduced a concept of segregating wards according to pathology. Greek pharmacology fused with Iranian and Indian traditions resulted in significant advances in medicine.

Regrettably this pre-Islamic era of learning came to an abrupt end following the Arab (Muslim) invasions and the defeat of Sassanid Persia The reality is that most of this ‘synthesis’ took place in the pre-Islamic period until Islamic invasions sank both Persia and India into a Dark Age lasting centuries.

IndiaFacts is grateful to the author Waseem Altaf and the publication Viewpointsonline.net for the article. No photograph of the author is published out of concern for the author’s safety. Here is his essay.

Science in the Islamic world

Rational thought in the Muslim world developed during the reign of liberal Muslim rulers of the Abbasid dynasty. However it was after the rise of scholars like Al-Ghazali that all scientific reasoning came to an end in the 13th century. As we remain enamored by our past achievements in the sciences, we forget that there is very little “original” we as Muslims can celebrate and be proud of.

It was during the reign of the early Abbasid caliphs, particularly Mamun-ur-Rashid (around 813 CE) that in his Dar-ul-Hikmah (the house of wisdom) in Baghdad, Muslim scholars would begin translating the classic Greek works, primarily toeing the Aristotelian tradition. In addition, they were heavily relying on Persian and Indian sources. They also penned huge commentaries on works by Greek philosophers. However, the Muslim translators were small in number and were primarily driven by curiosity. More than ninety nine percent Arabic translations of works of Greek philosophers were done by either Christian or Jewish scholars. It is interesting to note that Islamic astronomy, based on Ptolemy’s system was geocentric. Algebra was originally a Greek discipline and ‘Arabic’ numbers were actually Indian.

Al Ghazali
Al-Ghazali put an end to free thinking

[N.S Rajaram: Indians invented algebra, calling it bija-ganita. Greeks considered some special cases in number theory like Diophantine Equations, also known to the Indians. The cumbersome letter-based notation (like the later Roman numerals) did not lend itself to problems in algebra. The major Greek contributions were the concept of proof (known also to Indians) and above all the axiomatic method at which they excelled. The Arabs themselves never denied their indebtedness to the Hindus in astronomy, medicine and mathematics. They called their numbers ‘Hindu numerals’. As noted in the Editor’s Introduction, much of this took place in pre-Islamic Iran, especially under Khusro I.]

Most of these works were available to the West during 12th century when the first renaissance was taking place. Although Western scholars did travel to Spain to study Arabic versions of classical Greek thought, they soon found out that better versions of original texts in Greek were also available in the libraries of the ancient Greek city of Byzantium.

Notable Muslim scholars

However, it would be unfair not to mention some of those great Muslim scholars, though very few in number, who genuinely contributed in the development of philosophy and science.

Al-Razi (865 – 925 CE) from Persia, the greatest of all Muslim physicians, philosophers and alchemists wrote 184 articles and books, dismissed revelation and considered religion a dangerous thing. Al-Razi was condemned for blasphemy and almost all his books were destroyed later.

Ibn-e-Sina or Avicinna (980-1037CE), another great physician, philosopher and scientist was an Uzbek. Avicenna held philosophy superior to theology. His views were in sharp contrast to central Islamic doctrines and he rejected the resurrection of the dead in flesh and blood. As a consequence of his views, he became main target of Al-Ghazali and was labeled an apostate.

Ibn-e-Rushd (1126-1198 CE) or Averroes from Spain was a philosopher and scientist who expounded the Quran in Aristotelian terms. He was found guilty of heresy, his books burnt, he was interrogated and banished from Lucena.

Al-Bairuni (973-1048 CE), the father of Indology and a versatile genius, was of the strong view that Quran has its own domain and it does not interfere with the realm of science.

[NS Rajaram: Al-Bairuni, or Al-Biruni as he is better known in India, makes it clear that the Islamic invasions made Hindu (and Buddhistic) centers of learning their special targets.
In his words: “…Hindus became like atoms of dust scattered in all directions. …This is the reason too why Hindu sciences have retired far away from those parts of the country conquered by us, and have fled to places which our (Muslim) hands cannot reach.” The last great center of mathematics was in Kerala, from their reach.]

Al-Khawarazmi (780-850 CE) was another Persian mathematician, astronomer and geographer. The historian Al-Tabari considered him a Zoroastrian while others thought that he was a Muslim. However nowhere in his works has he acknowledged Islam or linked any of his findings to the holy text.

Omar Khayyam (1048-1131 CE), one of the greatest mathematicians, astronomers and poets was highly critical of religion, particularly Islam. He severely criticized the idea that every event and phenomena was the result of divine intervention.

[NS Rajaram: Omar Kyayyam is known to the world mainly as the author of the Rubayiyat (in its English translation by Fitzgerald), but native Persians see him as a minor poet but a great scientist. Like all free thinkers he was denounced as a heretic.]

Al-Farabi (872-950 CE), another great Muslim philosopher, highly inspired by Aristotle, considered reason superior to revelation and advocated for the relegation of prophecy to philosophy.

Abu Musa Jabir- bin- Hayan or Geber (721-815 CE) was an accomplished Muslim alchemist cum pharmacist. Although he was inclined towards mysticism, he fully acknowledged the role of experimentation in scientific endeavors.

Ibn-ul-haitham or Hazen (965-1040 CE) was an outstanding physicist, mathematician, astronomer and an expert on optics. He was ordered by Fatimid King Al-Hakim to regulate the floods of the Nile, which he knew was not scientifically possible. He feigned madness and was placed under house arrest for the rest of his life.

Contribution of unorthodox thinkers


As we go through the life histories of these great men we find that they were influenced by Greek, Babylonian or Indian contributions to philosophy and science, had a critical and reasoning mind and were ‘not good’ Muslims or even atheists. A significant number of them were reluctant to even reveal the status of their beliefs for fear of reprisal from the fanatics. They never ascribed their achievements to Islam or divinity. And they were scholars and scientists because of a critical mind which would think and derive inspiration from observation and not scriptures which set restrictions on free thinking and unhindered pursuit of knowledge.

Avicenna author of the famous Canon of Medicine


Hence bringing in Islam to highlight achievements of Muslim scientists is nothing but sheer rhetoric as these men did not derive their achievements out of Islam or flourished due to Islam. And we find that whatever little contribution to science was made can be owed to ‘imperfect Muslims’.

[NS Rajaram: Muslims are not alone in this.

Many Hindu scholars also make extravagant claims in the name of ‘Vedic science’ and the like that have no basis. Considering their numbers, the Hindus don’t have a particularly good record, compared to say, the Jews. India and Israel became independent countries around the same time but in science there is no comparison. Retreat into religion in the name of ‘spirituality’ must take its share of the blame. Hindu moneybags spend lavishly on religious endowments and dubious holy men, but are measly when it comes to supporting temples of learning. And the few they do (like the Hindu University of America) are an embarrassment and get bogged down in obscurantism and mismanagement.]



Putting ‘God’s hands in chains’

However it was the ‘perfect Muslim’, the Islamist, from the 12th century who was to give the biggest blow to scientific thought in the Muslim world.

Imam Ghazali (1058-1111 CE) who still occupies a centrestage among Muslim philosophers openly denounced the laws of nature and scientific reasoning. Ghazali argued that any such laws would put God’s hands in chains. He would assert that a piece of cotton burns when put to fire, not because of physical reasons but because God wants it to burn. Ghazali was also a strong supporter of the Ash’arites, the philosophers who would uphold the precedence of divine intervention over physical phenomena and bitterly opposed the Mu’tazillites— or the rationalists who were the true upholders of scientific thought.

More in Islamic History


The Sinister Side of Sufism

Dispelling the myth of Akbar the Great

Book Review—Tipu Sultan : The Tyrant of Mysore

Rending the veil of historical negationism in India

William Dalrymple’s skewed perspective on the Caliphate
In other words Ghazali championed the cause of orthodoxy and dogmatism at the cost of rationality and scientific reasoning. Today we find that all four major schools of Sunni Islam reject the concept of ‘Ijtehad’ which can loosely be translated as ‘freedom of thought’. Hence there is absolutely no room for any innovation or modification in traditional thought patterns.

We also find that as Europe was making use of technology while transforming into a culture of machines, the acceptance of these machines was extremely slow in the Islamic world. One prime example is that of the printing press which reached Muslim lands in 1492. However, printing was banned by Islamic authorities because they believed the Koran would be dishonored by appearing out of a machine. As a result, Arabs did not acquire printing press until the 18th century.

Khusro Anivarshan known as the ‘Just’

It also stands established that science is born out of secularism and democracy and not religious dogmatism. And science only flourished in places where religion had no role to play in matters of state. Hence there is an inverse relationship between religious orthodoxy and progress in science. Rational thought in the Muslim world developed during the reign of liberal Muslim rulers of the Abbasid dynasty who patronized the Mu’tazillites or rational thinkers.

However it was after the religious zealots’ compilation of the ahadis and the rise of scholars like Al-Ghazali that all scientific reasoning came to an end in the 13th century. As a consequence, Muslims contributed almost nothing to scientific progress and human civilization since the dawn of the 13th century. And while science and technology flourish in the modern world, a vast majority of Muslims, engulfed by obscurantism, still find solace in fantasies of a bygone era——the so called ‘golden age’ of Islam.

Concluding comments by Dr. N.S. Rajaram

Whether one agrees with the author’s radical conclusions or not, it is undeniable that the contributions to science under the great Islamic empires was disproportionately small considering their wealth and power. We already saw that their record in India even during the supposedly ‘great’ Mogul empire was dismal. Part of the problem was that Islamic rulers, instead of encouraging learning, hired foreigners and mercenaries— like Hindus in India and Jews and Christians in the Ottoman Empire.

Indian Muslim historians like Irfan Habib have tried to explain this intellectual vacuum of the Islamic period in India claiming that its rulers were mainly nomadic tribes from Central Asia (like Turks) who were more interested in military exploits than learning or scholarship. But why only under Islam in a belt from India to Turkey and beyond, and that too only after the coming of Islam?

One has to agree with the author Waseem Altaf that Islam (like Medieval Christianity) was mainly responsible for this continuing backwardness. Others, notably Hindus should learn from this and avoid getting trapped in the past.
__________________


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

kandis is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 08-Jun-16, 18:39   #31
Sultan
Crown Member
 
Sultan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sudan
Posts: 27,111
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kandis View Post
Sultan is a need of some background knowledge regarding Persian and Byzantine times.



You got stay between the lines Kandis. Learn to be more measured and don’t let your malice cause you to embrace things you don’t fully understand!

A person refusing to learn is a sad thing to be!

PS: Try to be more scholarly and don’t peddle material by authors who lack it!
__________________

حرية سلام وعدالة.. الثورة خيار الشعب

ديمقراطية راسخة ..تنمية مستدامة ..وطن واحد ..سلم وطيد
Sudan for all the Sudanese ..السودان لكل السودانيين
Sultan is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 13-Jun-16, 20:19   #32
Karkar
Banned
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 49N/122W
Posts: 5,831
Send a message via AIM to Karkar Send a message via MSN to Karkar Send a message via Yahoo to Karkar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sultan View Post
You got stay between the lines Kandis. Learn to be more measured and don’t let your malice cause you to embrace things you don’t fully understand!

A person refusing to learn is a sad thing to be!

PS: Try to be more scholarly and don’t peddle material by authors who lack it!
wow, classical Sultan! what lines exactly are we to stay between them? and what exactly is there or is here on earth to be learned? hmmm! try to be more scholarly ? you mean to over intellectualize things and make them more confusing? or just blindly follow the official narrative which is a total lie? the truth must be told to the lowly primates of the planet earth who don't know the truth. Embrace the truth and the truth shall set you free.
Karkar is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 13-Jun-16, 20:25   #33
Sultan
Crown Member
 
Sultan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sudan
Posts: 27,111
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sultan View Post
It is quite alright ya Karkar, I don't expect you to understand much of I say!

.................................................. ..............................
__________________

حرية سلام وعدالة.. الثورة خيار الشعب

ديمقراطية راسخة ..تنمية مستدامة ..وطن واحد ..سلم وطيد
Sudan for all the Sudanese ..السودان لكل السودانيين
Sultan is offline               Reply With Quote               
Old 15-Jun-16, 00:52   #34
Karkar
Banned
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 49N/122W
Posts: 5,831
Send a message via AIM to Karkar Send a message via MSN to Karkar Send a message via Yahoo to Karkar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sultan View Post
.................................................. ..............................
Ammu Sultan! did you run out of words or are you shying away from the truth?
Karkar is offline               Reply With Quote               
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

بحث مخصص

All times are GMT. The time now is 13:29.


Sudan.Net © 2014